love this! i also thought the 'reveal' hollowed out the racial commentary by positioning lestat as louis' final white saviour quite literally.
also the forgiveness/comfort that louis extends to lestat in his post-divorce actually boiled my blood. the woobifying of lestat as some 'broken thing' just as he had made louis, as if he didnt do it to himself by not attempting to save both of them or idk NOT cowriting their death sentencing, is disgusting to watch.
I dont give a fuck if he regrets his mistake, he still had her 'stoned'- which i put in quotations because despite trying to be racially aware the writers still felt too uncomfortable committing to calling the trial a lynching. because then how could they still sympathetically portray the man who helped to orchestrate it? its plain that they still needed a way to let the audience empathise with him, so they gave him the out of having saved louis, just so they could make him the star of the next several seasons of the show ig.
i dont think i can bring myself to watch anymore of it, and i really believed that it could be better than this. a shame and a pity.
Thanks for reading, Lucy! and yeah I'm definitely scared to see what this show turns into now after seeing how easily they decided to sacrifice their vision in the finale
Just came across this and this is such a great exploration of the show and its choices. It’s been so difficult to explain the nuances of the show especially in the face of Armand v Lestat commentary. Had THEE best time reading this and it’s so great to see great writing that proper reflects on great tv. Thank you!
just a comment about the trial: i think in the books it's said that lestat comes to armand for his healing blood after he was nearly killed so he is made to participate in the trial to get it - not that it makes him innocent but there is also reasoning behind his participation. moreover, a note about the louis-armand relationship: it's important to also remember louis' business in new orleans and the fact that armand was taken advantage of sexually during his life, that when louis wants to have sex with armand he commands him to do so, we don't see consent, the power dynamics are complex in their relationship. yes, louis is the victim and armand has the power of an older, stronger vampire in him as the coven leader, but also as you've talked about it in the article, he had a traumatic past and it plays a big role in how he sees "love", in the series we see armand addressing louis as maitre
I am a bit embarrassed to say this but I came here from the Loumand ASMR video which was the funniest thing I've seen in days, and now I have read a brilliantly insightful essay and piece of critical writing. This was great!
Some aspects of this feels a little reductive for a series that's known for moral ambiguity. I don't disagree that race and power dynamics play a huge role in the show, but I can't help but feel that looking at character actions solely through racial identity strips them of their agency and individuality.
Thanks for reading, Louis! I do not believe these characters moralities are solely the products of their race/racial experiences. It's just the angle I chose to focus on with this essay because I hadn't seen anyone discuss this facet of Armand before. Sorry that wasn't clear.
Oh man, I apologise. I'm embarrassed to say I think I was in some kind of mood when I wrote this, I read your essay on the way home from a stressful shift at my customer service job. Forgive me, I hope my comment wasn't demotivating.
Your piece is really well-written. You did a fantastic job at breaking down the character of Armand and looking at how racial dynamics play into their relationship. You had some really interesting observations on Armand's identity that I hadn't considered actually! How the effects of colonisation have shown Armand to adopt different names and accents throughout the years. Like, he ease of which Armand slipped into the role of Rashid. I'll be thinking about this for days, very astute!
I think I just had a few disagreements regarding our views on character framing.
Louis is wonderful, he's been made infinitely better by the show's reworking of his background. Louis is absolutely a victim, but he's also guilty of perpetuating toxic behaviours. The article mentions that Louis hits back when he's hurt but he's the first to throw fists in S1 E5, and the the first to land verbal blows in S2 E5. He withholds affection, stonewalls, and weaponises his lovers vulnerabilities against them. The twist made sense to me as Louis behaviour towards Armand throughout season 2 perfectly demonstrated why Armand would come to lack confidence and ultimately choose the coven.
I'm perhaps letting my bias affect my judgement but I also don't see Louis relationship with Lestat as being quite so black and white (pun intended? lol). Don't get me wrong, their relationship is absolutely skewed by wealth, class, and race. Lestat is blind to challenges Louis faces, and worse are the scenes where he's minimising these issues. Yet from my reading of their relationship, I think Lestat truly does love Louis. I just don't believe his abusive actions are pointedly motivated by racism but rather a deep-seated fear of abandonment. I'm 100% open to discussing further though.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and being so respectful in your response to my blunt initial comment. I'm also sorry this reply is so dang long.
(I swear I love for all these toxic-ass characters! Haha.)
That's okay, REALLY with you on the stressful customer service shift I wrote half of this after having one of my own 😂💀
I agree that Lestat loves Louis, but not that he is blind to Louis' challenges. There are smaller instances like the "he told me I did a good job" that just shows his ignorance about microaggressions but overall he absolutely knows, even expresses sympathy for him in the very first episode over them during that time stop at the poker game. Sure, there's a romance to sitting beside each other in the theatre when the lights go dark, but Lestat is still dragging him out into segregated society to play his manservant to see plays Louis doesn't even care about (there's an Armand parallel there). Lestat loving Louis does not stop him from being racist, and his other insecurities and that motivate him to treat Louis the way he did don't stop him from being racist
Louis' forms of retaliation are indeed from his own toxic behaviours but the power imbalance will never be in his favour when he's up against these guys and so to me it's not useful to measure how bad Louis is compared to them while talking about this because he's always the one that loses. But you are right, and I really do think that part of him is worth discussing especially in relation to him and Claudia and/or Daniel.
This show is just so complex and these characters' toxicity is just so compelling there are just too many different conversations to be had. and I love that! Louis if you ever feel like writing anything about IWTV I'd love to read it!
Thank you for your wonderful and thoughtful response Deah!
You're absolutely right, my verbiage that Lestat is blind to the racism Louis experiences is 100% incorrect. I think I just meant that while he's aware Louis is mistreated, he's likely ignorant to the extent of racism Louis faces. Lestat simply can't relate to Louis because he doesn't suffer the same treatment.
Lestat certainly shows clear racial insensitivity in his casual dismissal of Louis's concerns about his status and safety. His minimising of Louis experiences and micro-aggressions are absolutely not okay and do showcase a lack of understanding and empathy.
I think I'm just struggling to label Lestat as purely racist. He does benefit from racial inequality, and he does use Louis status to his advantage in to keep control over their relationship, however, I don't read his actions as motivated by personal prejudice. I think because there are so many dynamics at play regarding control, dependency, supernatural, & deeper emotional complexities.
That of course doesn't mean Lestat can't also be racist but it hasn't been my read on the character. Perhaps I'm being too kind though. It does seem a little silly to defend the morality of these characters. I think, perhaps because we've only seen one side of the story, I feel a little more defensive. I imagine next season will be interesting to examine. :)
Oh man, I'm sorry to hear you also have to deal with rough work shifts, but so glad you were able to channel it into this piece! I don't know if you can tell but none of my mean-ass friends will watch this show with me. Haha! I definitely seem to have pent-up opinions. You've inspired me to try and find an outlet. Haha.
Thank you again Deah! I know it takes time and energy to respond to comments like this but I really appreciated hearing your thoughts!
love this! i also thought the 'reveal' hollowed out the racial commentary by positioning lestat as louis' final white saviour quite literally.
also the forgiveness/comfort that louis extends to lestat in his post-divorce actually boiled my blood. the woobifying of lestat as some 'broken thing' just as he had made louis, as if he didnt do it to himself by not attempting to save both of them or idk NOT cowriting their death sentencing, is disgusting to watch.
I dont give a fuck if he regrets his mistake, he still had her 'stoned'- which i put in quotations because despite trying to be racially aware the writers still felt too uncomfortable committing to calling the trial a lynching. because then how could they still sympathetically portray the man who helped to orchestrate it? its plain that they still needed a way to let the audience empathise with him, so they gave him the out of having saved louis, just so they could make him the star of the next several seasons of the show ig.
i dont think i can bring myself to watch anymore of it, and i really believed that it could be better than this. a shame and a pity.
Thanks for reading, Lucy! and yeah I'm definitely scared to see what this show turns into now after seeing how easily they decided to sacrifice their vision in the finale
Just came across this and this is such a great exploration of the show and its choices. It’s been so difficult to explain the nuances of the show especially in the face of Armand v Lestat commentary. Had THEE best time reading this and it’s so great to see great writing that proper reflects on great tv. Thank you!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
just a comment about the trial: i think in the books it's said that lestat comes to armand for his healing blood after he was nearly killed so he is made to participate in the trial to get it - not that it makes him innocent but there is also reasoning behind his participation. moreover, a note about the louis-armand relationship: it's important to also remember louis' business in new orleans and the fact that armand was taken advantage of sexually during his life, that when louis wants to have sex with armand he commands him to do so, we don't see consent, the power dynamics are complex in their relationship. yes, louis is the victim and armand has the power of an older, stronger vampire in him as the coven leader, but also as you've talked about it in the article, he had a traumatic past and it plays a big role in how he sees "love", in the series we see armand addressing louis as maitre
I am a bit embarrassed to say this but I came here from the Loumand ASMR video which was the funniest thing I've seen in days, and now I have read a brilliantly insightful essay and piece of critical writing. This was great!
omg hi! thanks for reading And watching. very proud of both works ❤️😂
Some aspects of this feels a little reductive for a series that's known for moral ambiguity. I don't disagree that race and power dynamics play a huge role in the show, but I can't help but feel that looking at character actions solely through racial identity strips them of their agency and individuality.
Thanks for reading, Louis! I do not believe these characters moralities are solely the products of their race/racial experiences. It's just the angle I chose to focus on with this essay because I hadn't seen anyone discuss this facet of Armand before. Sorry that wasn't clear.
Oh man, I apologise. I'm embarrassed to say I think I was in some kind of mood when I wrote this, I read your essay on the way home from a stressful shift at my customer service job. Forgive me, I hope my comment wasn't demotivating.
Your piece is really well-written. You did a fantastic job at breaking down the character of Armand and looking at how racial dynamics play into their relationship. You had some really interesting observations on Armand's identity that I hadn't considered actually! How the effects of colonisation have shown Armand to adopt different names and accents throughout the years. Like, he ease of which Armand slipped into the role of Rashid. I'll be thinking about this for days, very astute!
I think I just had a few disagreements regarding our views on character framing.
Louis is wonderful, he's been made infinitely better by the show's reworking of his background. Louis is absolutely a victim, but he's also guilty of perpetuating toxic behaviours. The article mentions that Louis hits back when he's hurt but he's the first to throw fists in S1 E5, and the the first to land verbal blows in S2 E5. He withholds affection, stonewalls, and weaponises his lovers vulnerabilities against them. The twist made sense to me as Louis behaviour towards Armand throughout season 2 perfectly demonstrated why Armand would come to lack confidence and ultimately choose the coven.
I'm perhaps letting my bias affect my judgement but I also don't see Louis relationship with Lestat as being quite so black and white (pun intended? lol). Don't get me wrong, their relationship is absolutely skewed by wealth, class, and race. Lestat is blind to challenges Louis faces, and worse are the scenes where he's minimising these issues. Yet from my reading of their relationship, I think Lestat truly does love Louis. I just don't believe his abusive actions are pointedly motivated by racism but rather a deep-seated fear of abandonment. I'm 100% open to discussing further though.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and being so respectful in your response to my blunt initial comment. I'm also sorry this reply is so dang long.
(I swear I love for all these toxic-ass characters! Haha.)
That's okay, REALLY with you on the stressful customer service shift I wrote half of this after having one of my own 😂💀
I agree that Lestat loves Louis, but not that he is blind to Louis' challenges. There are smaller instances like the "he told me I did a good job" that just shows his ignorance about microaggressions but overall he absolutely knows, even expresses sympathy for him in the very first episode over them during that time stop at the poker game. Sure, there's a romance to sitting beside each other in the theatre when the lights go dark, but Lestat is still dragging him out into segregated society to play his manservant to see plays Louis doesn't even care about (there's an Armand parallel there). Lestat loving Louis does not stop him from being racist, and his other insecurities and that motivate him to treat Louis the way he did don't stop him from being racist
Louis' forms of retaliation are indeed from his own toxic behaviours but the power imbalance will never be in his favour when he's up against these guys and so to me it's not useful to measure how bad Louis is compared to them while talking about this because he's always the one that loses. But you are right, and I really do think that part of him is worth discussing especially in relation to him and Claudia and/or Daniel.
This show is just so complex and these characters' toxicity is just so compelling there are just too many different conversations to be had. and I love that! Louis if you ever feel like writing anything about IWTV I'd love to read it!
Thank you for your wonderful and thoughtful response Deah!
You're absolutely right, my verbiage that Lestat is blind to the racism Louis experiences is 100% incorrect. I think I just meant that while he's aware Louis is mistreated, he's likely ignorant to the extent of racism Louis faces. Lestat simply can't relate to Louis because he doesn't suffer the same treatment.
Lestat certainly shows clear racial insensitivity in his casual dismissal of Louis's concerns about his status and safety. His minimising of Louis experiences and micro-aggressions are absolutely not okay and do showcase a lack of understanding and empathy.
I think I'm just struggling to label Lestat as purely racist. He does benefit from racial inequality, and he does use Louis status to his advantage in to keep control over their relationship, however, I don't read his actions as motivated by personal prejudice. I think because there are so many dynamics at play regarding control, dependency, supernatural, & deeper emotional complexities.
That of course doesn't mean Lestat can't also be racist but it hasn't been my read on the character. Perhaps I'm being too kind though. It does seem a little silly to defend the morality of these characters. I think, perhaps because we've only seen one side of the story, I feel a little more defensive. I imagine next season will be interesting to examine. :)
Oh man, I'm sorry to hear you also have to deal with rough work shifts, but so glad you were able to channel it into this piece! I don't know if you can tell but none of my mean-ass friends will watch this show with me. Haha! I definitely seem to have pent-up opinions. You've inspired me to try and find an outlet. Haha.
Thank you again Deah! I know it takes time and energy to respond to comments like this but I really appreciated hearing your thoughts!